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Post by Dreefrecter on Mar 3, 2018 19:45:22 GMT
Conjigutte, thank you;) There's a psychological and phrenic aspect to each contention. Comprehend your adversary's prospects and lamentable dreams in the event that you optate to victoriously triumph. Would could it be that Google needs to sidestep by all betokens? Being optically perceived as an exploitative organization that blossoms with the torment of its business accomplices. A move in general supposition may hurt them more than even the loss of the more preponderant part of YT's watchers. As anon as they are persuaded content engenderers are desperate to the point that they never again care and yare to wage range atomic fighting against Google's notoriety, yare to jeopardize their own ravagement, they'll give in. Do you have a PhD in english?
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Post by fechanicalkek on Mar 3, 2018 19:49:01 GMT
That wouldnt work, I concur. It's Google, trepidacious of genuinely deplorable PR. If channels leave because of unethical treatment. Recollect "Don't be malignant"? Google will optate to evade a deplorable reputation by all betokens...Especially if content engenderers threaten to join forces with their competitors and thus drawing public attention to them. HUH
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Post by monikamaier on Mar 3, 2018 19:56:37 GMT
Dreefrecter, just a peasant's degree (= M.A.) in English and Politics, then switched over to software engineering and psychology...
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Post by empressdickpunch on Mar 3, 2018 20:10:33 GMT
I'm seeing a lot of defeatism in these discussions, which is worrying. It seems most folks don't actually understand just HOW a union works, especially a fledgling one such as this. The only way we have any chance is by doing EVERYTHING we can for AS LONG AS NEEDED. This means nothing is off the table and everything must be utilized. I'm not the biggest believer in exodus however it is a viable strategy to try, as is a youtuber strike or temp boycott, as is protest, as is contacting, occupying, protesting, smearing the major advertisers. Fighting something like this requires a shotgun approach, throw our as many attacks as possible until something hits home.
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solarseraph
Junior Member
A house divided against itself cannot stand
Posts: 51
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Post by solarseraph on Mar 3, 2018 20:14:45 GMT
Outdoor_jo is absolutely right. This will take a lot of time, and we need to let things grow for quite a while before we have the numbers to be actionable. Let's let it grow, and please, please, PLEASE let's not be another annoying internet campaign that defeats itself just because people are sick of hearing about it. There's enough grassroots support, we shouldn't have to push anyone to join. Just be slow and steady. Monika, as always, I agree with taking account psychology and persuasion into account. But also be aware that Google is one of the wealthiest corporations in the world, and that they've got the general public opinion very firmly under their control. Honestly, most of the general public doesn't care no matter what they do. After all, demonetizing YouTube videos may be on the list, but pretty insignificant compared to other stories, not to mention firing employees over political beliefs, and YouTube censorship of political content they don't like. Google can handle negative press, and you can be sure that Apple and Amazon are already doing what they can to discredit Google whenever possible. Traditional PR wars aren't effective. We'll really need to do some thinking to figure out the most persuasive way forward. Also, don't forget what Joerg said in his video - we love YouTube. We want to partner with it and see it thrive. Salting the earth is a bad idea if you want to plant a crop there later!
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solarseraph
Junior Member
A house divided against itself cannot stand
Posts: 51
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Post by solarseraph on Mar 3, 2018 20:17:18 GMT
Dreefrecter, just a peasant's degree (= M.A.) in English and Politics, then switched over to software engineering and psychology... Interesting Monika, I have degrees in Computer Science and foreign language Psychology and linguistics have strange but fun overlaps. I've been working as a software engineer for about three years now.
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Post by monikamaier on Mar 3, 2018 20:25:47 GMT
I fully agree. Defeatism and a lack of engagement are always an issue in every organisation. But I believe the situation of many channels has become so desperate that they understand surrender's not an option...
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Post by Jack Walters on Mar 3, 2018 20:28:55 GMT
On the idea of us subscribing to each others channels to get us into the 10,000 sub mark, I have worked out the following. Please correct me if any of this is inaccurate: Unless it has changed recently a persons total number of subscriptions is limited to 2,000. This means that each of us can only help 2,000 people, but 6,000 people can subscribe to one person. Perhaps there should be a cut off after each one of us has reached the 10,000 subscriber limit. For example I only have 36 subscribers while I have seen some of you have 600 or more. To generate a list of channels we can subscribe to: I propose that, a person chosen by Jörg or Jörg himself, create a google doc that anyone can add to but not delete from: This is done by setting a google document to Share then set it to Comment, meaning that People can make comments and suggestions, but can’t change or share the file with others. If anyone knows an easier and permanent method, please chime in. Then to make the last step easier, subscribing to 2,000 channels, or more, I can cobble together a VBS to perform the following procedure. If anyone knows an easier method for this, please chime in as well. Rather than clicking on a "Subscribe" button 2,000 times, this VBS will automate most of it. You will have to install a handful of small programs, that can be scanned for viruses by someone we pick and trust before being approved, for the script to work. I will include links in the final write up if the community approves this method. The VBS will look at the list created in the step above then puts the channel ID in an API one at a time via Services > YouTube Data API v3 > youtube.subscriptions.insert An example of how it works can be seen here: developers.google.com/apis-explorer/#p/youtube/v3/youtube.subscriptions.insert?part=snippet&_h=2&resource=%257B%250A++%2522snippet%2522%253A+%250A++%257B%250A++++%2522resourceId%2522%253A+%250A++++%257B%250A++++++%2522kind%2522%253A+%2522youtube%2523channel%2522%252C%250A++++++%2522channelId%2522%253A+%2522UCBTF3f1kVC_AXNh0bvTQNcQ%2522%250A++++%257D%250A++%257D%250A%257D&You have to authorize it on the first one, by signing into your YouTube account when prompted, then it will do the remaining 2,000 or more accounts automatically. I think it will be able to handle repeats if we were to do it a second time at a later date when more people have been added to the list. I still have to test this. I have looked for an easier way to do all this and have not turned up anything else. If anyone else would like to take this idea and run with it, that would be great. I have found in my past script writing attempts, that it often takes me a month or two to scrape something together that works. Any and all comments and observations are welcome. Power to the "creators" (that's us)
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solarseraph
Junior Member
A house divided against itself cannot stand
Posts: 51
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Post by solarseraph on Mar 3, 2018 20:39:12 GMT
Jack - I think this is an idea that deserves its own thread of discussion. Would you mind copying your post to another thread and see what the general audience thinks about the idea of artificially inflating sub numbers?
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solarseraph
Junior Member
A house divided against itself cannot stand
Posts: 51
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Post by solarseraph on Mar 3, 2018 20:43:07 GMT
Some food for thought: The power of a union lies in it's ability to negotiate - which is down to weight of numbers and how it uses them. To start a tiered system of membership is necessary (this may or may not include a cost barrier). For example, membership options for youtube partners, viewers, small creators. This allows for knowledge of the level of support and, therefore, the best strategy. The YU needs to 'professionalise', and be attractive for all creators. A short campaign video detailing why creators should join, and then videos targeting specific sectors of content. (The announcement video is exactly thus; an announcement. It details the formation and aims of the YU and does not fullfill the role I briefly discuss). Diversifying the YU's image is important - at the minute it seems aimed at 'weapon'-based creators and this is far too niche and narrow. I know Joerg mentioned controversial content (politics...); however, this was far too brief. Gamers have been hit, as have vloggers, comedians, and even some educational content flagged (as well as many others) - each needs to be individually targeted. What precisely will the YU do for them if they join. Clear leadership need to be displayed. Fully agreed! A very professional channel dedicated to service announcements and updates will be necessary. I also like the idea of tiered membership, because there needs to be some organizational structure. Also, on the topic of image management, I'm thinking our members need an official code of ethics, which you agree to if you want to be a member of the union. I'll propose it on a new thread.
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Post by monikamaier on Mar 3, 2018 20:47:10 GMT
Solarseraph, yeah Google has become some kind of leviathan in the past decade. It's pretty scary... So, from a political point of view, trying to challenge its power might not only be good for the youtube channels, but - in a societal context - be necessary for our society to fight an internet monopoly, to keep pluralism of thoughts and freedom of speech alive. As you mentioned, we have allies - other big corporations who would certainly love to see this movement grow. Why not ask them for support? Every war starts with a first battle. Maybe this "Battle of YouTube" will be on history books one day;) Google is a scary beast, you're right. But everything created by man can be destroyed by man if need be. About my studies: Years ago I decided for myself that I wanted to gain as much knowledge in my life as possible, even if that meant that I wouldnt make that much money working on a career. English and Politics were a good first start, but after finishing my M.A. I kinda got bored and wanted to do something different...
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Post by monikamaier on Mar 3, 2018 20:55:10 GMT
Jack, Panthen - I love your ideas! I agree with solarseraph you should open a new thread on this.
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Post by panthen on Mar 3, 2018 21:10:59 GMT
Some food for thought (Sorry for all the text; often just stating the obvious): -The power of a union lies in it's ability to negotiate - which is down to weight of numbers and how it uses them. To start a tiered system of membership is necessary (this may or may not include a cost barrier). For example, membership options for youtube partners, viewers, small creators. This allows for knowledge of the level of support and where it lies, and, therefore, the best strategy moving forward. -The YU needs to 'professionalise', and be attractive for all creators. A short campaign video detailing why creators should join, and then videos targeting specific sectors of content. (The announcement video is exactly thus; an announcement. It details the formation and aims of the YU and does not fullfill the role I briefly discuss). Diversifying the YU's image is important - at the minute it seems aimed at 'weapon'-based creators and this is far too niche and narrow. I know Joerg mentioned controversial content (politics...); however, this was far too brief. Gamers have been hit, as have vloggers, comedians, and even some educational content flagged (as well as many others) - each needs to be individually targeted. What precisely will the YU do for them if they join. This is going to need 'back-room' chats- it takes creators to convince each other to join. Psychologically it's important for people to see the YU leaders as professionals (I know this is not possible without serious financial support). Suits and media interviews would help this. The YU also needs a website - people like me making comments on an open forum is not helping to grow the YU. Donations to the YU would then be a possibility. -Clear leadership needs to be displayed. Who makes decisions? Who is the face of the YU? Who will negotiate with YU? Country-specific representative? I believe this needs to be more than just Jeorg. YU manifesto? -What are the YU's threats to youtube. Obviously, the ad. revenue is an option - either creators going on strike, leaving the platform, or disabling ad's on their content. Less obviously, would be to convince legislators that creators are in effect employees of youtube (entitled to minimum wage/holiday pay/maternity leave...) [this may be easier in Europe than America]. Trashing them in the media; who would probably enjoy the opportunity to dirt youtube as a monopoly that has no concern towards it's creators (granted this probably wouldn't do much for the YU, but it may hurt youtube a little).
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Post by panthen on Mar 3, 2018 21:14:43 GMT
Some food for thought: The power of a union lies in it's ability to negotiate - which is down to weight of numbers and how it uses them. To start a tiered system of membership is necessary (this may or may not include a cost barrier). For example, membership options for youtube partners, viewers, small creators. This allows for knowledge of the level of support and, therefore, the best strategy. The YU needs to 'professionalise', and be attractive for all creators. A short campaign video detailing why creators should join, and then videos targeting specific sectors of content. (The announcement video is exactly thus; an announcement. It details the formation and aims of the YU and does not fullfill the role I briefly discuss). Diversifying the YU's image is important - at the minute it seems aimed at 'weapon'-based creators and this is far too niche and narrow. I know Joerg mentioned controversial content (politics...); however, this was far too brief. Gamers have been hit, as have vloggers, comedians, and even some educational content flagged (as well as many others) - each needs to be individually targeted. What precisely will the YU do for them if they join. Clear leadership need to be displayed. Fully agreed! A very professional channel dedicated to service announcements and updates will be necessary. I also like the idea of tiered membership, because there needs to be some organizational structure. Also, on the topic of image management, I'm thinking our members need an official code of ethics, which you agree to if you want to be a member of the union. I'll propose it on a new thread. I don't know how, but it appears I accidentally posted a draft (and I talk about professionalism), which is why the last sentence isn't clarified. Oops! Yes if an actual member of the union, then you in effect become representative of it - we don't want the YU to be trashed by some morons. Excellent point!
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Post by Fassi on Mar 3, 2018 21:17:43 GMT
Fully agreed! A very professional channel dedicated to service announcements and updates will be necessary. I also like the idea of tiered membership, because there needs to be some organizational structure. Also, on the topic of image management, I'm thinking our members need an official code of ethics, which you agree to if you want to be a member of the union. I'll propose it on a new thread. I don't know how, but it appears I accidentally posted a draft (and I talk about professionalism), which is why the last sentence isn't clarified. Oops! Yes if an actual member of the union, then you in effect become representative of it - we don't want the YU to be trashed by some morons. WOW I kinda agree, but I think it is quite odd
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