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Post by reddog on Mar 4, 2018 13:43:22 GMT
A simple and direct approach led by a few people towards the larger Youtube channels may be very valuable. This group needs to grow in market share quite a bit for Youtube to take notice.
Also, does this initiative have a structure with maybe 4-5 people leading the group? I see lots of different ideas getting thrown around and fear folks will drift off and just start doing whatever they feel is necessary under the union name and umbrella.
Just my thoughts. I’m here to help if I can but to organize we actually need to get organized if you know what I mean.
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Post by sevenbanes on Mar 4, 2018 14:23:24 GMT
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Post by Mike Smithski on Mar 4, 2018 15:22:07 GMT
A simple and direct approach led by a few people towards the larger Youtube channels may be very valuable. This group needs to grow in market share quite a bit for Youtube to take notice. Also, does this initiative have a structure with maybe 4-5 people leading the group? I see lots of different ideas getting thrown around and fear folks will drift off and just start doing whatever they feel is necessary under the union name and umbrella. Just my thoughts. I’m here to help if I can but to organize we actually need to get organized if you know what I mean. This group needs to grow in market share quite a bit for Youtube to take notice. Agreed.
does this initiative have a structure with maybe 4-5 people leading the group Not yet. It's been 2 days. Please read this post by Joerg.
I’m here to help if I can but to organize we actually need to get organized if you know what I mean. Stick around and stay active. We'll soon reach a point where a group of leaders will be chosen.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 11, 2018 18:02:22 GMT
A simple and direct approach led by a few people towards the larger Youtube channels may be very valuable. This group needs to grow in market share quite a bit for Youtube to take notice. Also, does this initiative have a structure with maybe 4-5 people leading the group? I see lots of different ideas getting thrown around and fear folks will drift off and just start doing whatever they feel is necessary under the union name and umbrella. Just my thoughts. I’m here to help if I can but to organize we actually need to get organized if you know what I mean. The movement grew super fast. It is still early. There is time to organise yet.
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 12, 2018 0:27:40 GMT
Back in the ye' olde days of the United States, they made a hard and fast rule that 'leaders' are selected from the community. Anyone who declares themselves a 'leader' was immediately invalidated from the vote.
I say, avoid people who seek power, avoid people who seek control. Joerg started this largely for his own self interest, but a rising tide floats all boats so I'm committed to helping him achieve our mutual goals.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 12, 2018 1:53:46 GMT
Back in the ye' olde days of the United States, they made a hard and fast rule that 'leaders' are selected from the community. Anyone who declares themselves a 'leader' was immediately invalidated from the vote. I say, avoid people who seek power, avoid people who seek control. Joerg started this largely for his own self interest, but a rising tide floats all boats so I'm committed to helping him achieve our mutual goals. In my own judgement you are misjudging Joerg. I do not believe he seeks power. I believe he saw a need and in response to frustration decided to take action.
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 12, 2018 3:56:14 GMT
I didn't say that Joerg was seeking power, I said he was self interested. I'm self interested too and like any good objectivist I see it as a virtuous state of being.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 12, 2018 9:51:01 GMT
I don't have a problem with anyone having a stake in this, I would be surprised if they didn't. I think it comes more down to self preservation (which is a kind of self interest I suppose) with the larger youtubers. They keep seeing channels getting axed. If that was my livelyhood I would want some security. I am a small channel, I don't rely on youtube for my income, i can't see myself ever doing that. With the way the randomly axe channels at the moment it would be foolish to try and start a youtube careeer.
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 13, 2018 1:12:54 GMT
For that reason, the big boys have no incentive to help. Unless they were to become 'leaders' of the opposition. You're familiar with my philosophy regarding this topic? I think it's probably the only way we're going to drag them out of their safe space.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 13, 2018 8:23:24 GMT
For that reason, the big boys have no incentive to help. Unless they were to become 'leaders' of the opposition. You're familiar with my philosophy regarding this topic? I think it's probably the only way we're going to drag them out of their safe space. Yes I know your philosophy and I don't its correct, I do agree it has some merits. I don't think we need to drag anyone out. A lot of them will have been waiting for somehting liek this too happen and will just be spending some time assessing before they declare support. One thing more likely to scare people off is if the movement becomes too political, politics scares people and we don't need that headache when we are all effected by this and we have supporters from all walks of life.
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 13, 2018 22:29:28 GMT
You saw the polls... It's absolutely 100% clear as crystal that people DO NOT want to be censored. People want the option of making any kind of video they want without penalty or persecution. That is a fact, it is undeniable. Do not fall into the post-modernist trap that facts and reality can be argued away.
If you take free speech out of the charter, you will alienate 99% of the members here. That is a fact.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 13, 2018 23:18:48 GMT
You saw the polls... It's absolutely 100% clear as crystal that people DO NOT want to be censored. People want the option of making any kind of video they want without penalty or persecution. That is a fact, it is undeniable. Do not fall into the post-modernist trap that facts and reality can be argued away. If you take free speech out of the charter, you will alienate 99% of the members here. That is a fact. I have not seen anyone argue against free speech, I have seen a few people arguing a few exceptions to free speech based on harmful content, and what those exceptions should be. I have not seen anyone say we should outright ban free speech. The only issue I raised with free speech is that givent teh internation nature of Youtube it may be much more difficult to implement than most people realise. However when you refer to your philosophy I am taken back to the video you shared earlier. The guy in the video advocates removing anyone from your circle, even your wife if neccessary, that do not agree with your point of view. His method to me seems to deny open platform and discussion to anyone who does not agree with him, something which to me is a real contradicion for someone arguing free speech.
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 14, 2018 2:00:30 GMT
The laws of various countries dictate what can be shown. Provisions can be made when a video is uploaded so that it may not be shown in those countries, that's an easy fix. Censorship on that basis is just a Fabian attack on liberty.
The decision to ostracize someone for their views is not censorship, it doesn't violate the non-aggression principle. If you understand the video, it's a methodology the left has used to dominate academia, entertainment and through their 'intolerance', they won the culture war. It's also the reason little girls and boys are getting arrested the moment they step off a plane because they are Christian and conservative.
I will not tolerate anyone who uses the state to attack its citizens. If you think imprisonment or censorship is a good way to win an argument, I won't tolerate you either.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 14, 2018 2:39:42 GMT
The laws of various countries dictate what can be shown. Provisions can be made when a video is uploaded so that it may not be shown in those countries, that's an easy fix. Censorship on that basis is just a Fabian attack on liberty. The decision to ostracize someone for their views is not censorship, it doesn't violate the non-aggression principle. If you understand the video, it's a methodology the left has used to dominate academia, entertainment and through their 'intolerance', they won the culture war. It's also the reason little girls and boys are getting arrested the moment they step off a plane because they are Christian and conservative. I will not tolerate anyone who uses the state to attack its citizens. If you think imprisonment or censorship is a good way to win an argument, I won't tolerate you either. No one has advocated for censorship or imprisonment, whre are you even getting that from. I understand that the videos suggests to not associate with anyone who does not agree with you, so that you can live in an echo chamber of your own self appreciation and others that share your view. That way you can belive you are always right because there is no one disagreeing with you. You don't need to prove your position with facts or reason you can do it by fear of removal from socal groups. You suggested earlier that we should promote people who sign up to a list of ideals and deny people who do not agree. This is exactly the type of censorship that Youtube has angered so many people with. Why would you come here and advocate for the same system of conformity that has lead to so many problem in the first place. I don't get it. You cannot seriously demand that only some people be allowed to speak in the name of free speech.
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 14, 2018 3:10:59 GMT
It's different... Having a different political view is not like whether you prefer Reeboks or Nike. A shoe company can't throw you in the gulag for your choice of footwear.
As for the check boxes, the identity group does not work unless they are unified behind a single banner. Statistics state that the issue of creative freedom is probably going to be the least contentious.
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