|
Post by coffekanon on Mar 12, 2018 22:32:16 GMT
Or this: Company Kelloggs being accused of racism for a cartooned Corn Pop character looking like a janitor on a cereal box. youtu.be/WOBTupZAT3gBasically, Kellogs is the same as the KKK or Nazi Germany right? 
|
|
|
Post by coffekanon on Mar 12, 2018 22:36:40 GMT
All white people are racist. Yes, All white people. So it doesn't really matter what they say or do. Racist regardless. So according to Spartacus here, white people can't speak at all, because racism is not protected by freedom of speech. And this black... "man" accuse all white people of being racist, so anything white people say must also be racist. youtu.be/N2P2qiINSng?t=1m10s
|
|
|
Post by spartacus on Mar 12, 2018 22:42:01 GMT
The issue at hand is that people are abusing the supposed "illegal" status of racist speech, by accusing anyone and everyone and their statements for being "racist" even in the most ludicrous situations where the speech in question is clearly not racist at all. I have answered you and I have provided a number of links. But you're venturing into very swampy waters. Racist speech, or hate speech has a somewhat contentious legal status in America. In Chaplinsky v. New_Hampshire the supreme court ruled that 'fighting words' are not protected by the first amendment. This has and is sometimes used to define hate speech as not being protected, but it's contentious. You took an example from the UK though... here in Europe hate speech is most certainly not protected by free speech, in some countries it's even a crime in and of itself. And I think that's good thing, not only for ideological reasons, but also for purely orderly reasons. Inciting hatred against people is not good for keeping the peace and as violence tends to result in more violence... not a good idea. As for the last bit about accusations of racism... maybe, maybe not - I'll take your word for that, but I have no clue what that has to do with the union and the harebrained idea that it needs to be a standoff about absolute free speech with YouTube.
|
|
|
Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 12, 2018 22:43:52 GMT
Can we err relax. No point getting hung up on the exact meaning. Focus in how YouTube interprets it.
|
|
|
Post by spartacus on Mar 12, 2018 22:52:39 GMT
Can we err relax. No point getting hung up on the exact meaning. Focus in how YouTube interprets it. Aaaaamen!
|
|
|
Post by coffekanon on Mar 12, 2018 23:26:08 GMT
The issue at hand is that people are abusing the supposed "illegal" status of racist speech, by accusing anyone and everyone and their statements for being "racist" even in the most ludicrous situations where the speech in question is clearly not racist at all. As for the last bit about accusations of racism... maybe, maybe not - I'll take your word for that, but I have no clue what that has to do with the union and the harebrained idea that it needs to be a standoff about absolute free speech with YouTube. Ok, to summarize: Leftwing groups have become more and more extreme in both their offline and online activism. Most of them have abandoned debating actual topics with rightwingers (conservatives) and have instead started to publicly brand any opinions to the right of Karl Marx as "nazism" or "racism". They've even gone so far as to try and redefine the word "racism" to mean something that it didn't originally. The original definition of racism was the belief that humans can be categorized into different races, largely dependant on superficial biological traits like skintone, head shape and such. And that certain races are biologically "superior" to others. But since, a definition originating from the Frankfurt School and so called "Critical Theory" has been gaining favor among the left wing, that define racism according to the formula of prejudice + privilige = power. Which basically shields all "minorities" from being guilty of racism, even when members of these minorities make statements that clearly adhere to the original definition of racism that I mentioned above. Because as "minorities" they are defined as "oppressed" and "under-priviliged", while majority populations (usually white, especially white male populations) are classed as "priviliged", and therefore only white people can be racist. So we've got a clear pattern of left-wing groups moving the goalposts by redefining words in order to weaponize them against people that disagree with their views and opinions. So the discourse between conservatives and "progressive" left-wingers on youtube has long since stopped being about debates of ideas, and has instead stagnated into one side branding the other as racist/sexist/homophobic. This in turn has lead to online activism where they want to get conservative content creators deplatformed/censored. This in turn has lead to youtube attempting various solutions, like constant updates to their terms of service and community guidelines. Implementation of dysfunctional bots/A.I's coded to respond to certain keywords in video titles, but also the amount of reports a video recieves and other algorithms (so far, undisclosed). This has then blown up in all of youtubes faces since even apolitical content is getting struck by these bots. So the remedy was to hire people to do the reviews instead. But they clearly aren't doing a better job, since they let personal bias influence their decisions during such reviews. So this shitstorm has started entirely because of the kind of "moralist concern" about racism that you've put forth here, which has then been used by a political bloc that abuse the mechanisms involved to get people they don't like deplatformed. For more information about the development and left-wing redefinition of the term "racism", you can watch this informative video that breaks it down: youtu.be/c7as0pFxPYc
|
|
|
Post by coffekanon on Mar 12, 2018 23:30:28 GMT
Can we err relax. No point getting hung up on the exact meaning. Focus in how YouTube interprets it. Well youtube purposefully refuse to present a clear definition of how they interpret it. And it's not really in their interest to do so at the moment, because the more nebulous they keep their interpretation of both freedom of speech and their own community guidelines, the more power they can maintain to arbitrarily shut people down as they please. If they were to start being concise, then they would be bound by their own clear interpretation.
|
|
|
Post by maximgunn on Mar 13, 2018 0:09:05 GMT
I have been censored.
boo.
I'll remove my one and only post in this thread and allow you to get back to arguing with someone who believes that with enough sophistry the tail can wag the dog; but the polls suggest he's but a flea on that tail and you must consistently remind yourself of that fact.
My original post said the same thing but it had a comic flair to it... Oh well, one must be as strong as an oak and as flexible as a reed.
|
|
|
Post by spartacus on Mar 13, 2018 0:14:32 GMT
If they were to start being concise, then they would be bound by their own clear interpretation. You’re not totally off. But you’re off as for the reasons. YouTube is not trying to keep the power to censor their users by being obtuse and keeping their options open. It’s about protecting themselves against civil lawsuits. The less is known about the inner workings of the enforcement of the YouTube policy, the less opportunity there is to attack them on grounds of breach of contract. Contrtary to your belief, Google is literally obsessed about NOT getting involved with content enforcement, but advertisers and public pressure is forcing them to. But I fear you won’t believe that and continue barking up the wrong tree.
|
|
|
Post by spartacus on Mar 13, 2018 0:54:33 GMT
And regarding racism - I truly have no idea of what you’re talking about, which is a bit shocking to me (and I’m not being coy). I spend the better part of my existence studying 20th century history, with a pretty strong focus on the rise of nationalism. I’ve literally spent thousands and thousands of hours studying this and I’ve never heard of a theory based on the Frankfurt School of thought that anyone interprets that way, at least not in serious academic circles. I might be wrong, but it sounds like someone’s twisting things here. In my book and the book of everyone else I know who study this field professionally, the first definition you give is the ONLY definition of racism there is. I’ve heard that the extreme, racist right frequently accuse liberals of holding minorities incapable of racism. I’ve heard the extreme anti-establishment left argue that the far right is forcing reverse racism on minorities... but both those things are so seriously off the chart and fringe political blabla that those of us studying it from a perspective of history tend to ignore that kind of thing and focus on the verifiable facts to understand the motives, rather than the rhetoric. Your suggestion is even stranger to me.
|
|
|
Post by Joerg Sprave on Mar 13, 2018 10:14:52 GMT
scratch your ***s, look out the window onto the lawn to find a ****-shaped mushroom has grown out of a steaming pile of dog-****. This is breaking the only rule here. Please edit your related post and remove the foul language. Don't do it again.
|
|
|
Post by spartacus on Mar 13, 2018 11:25:52 GMT
This is ironic for someone crying about freedom of speech and the right to dissent: It is obvious that the understanding of free speech is wanting with the young ones, and that they have not read their John Mills to understand the depth of the issue and the concept of tyranny of the masses.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
|
|
|
Post by coffekanon on Mar 13, 2018 11:45:32 GMT
If they were to start being concise, then they would be bound by their own clear interpretation. Google is literally obsessed about NOT getting involved with content enforcement, but advertisers and public pressure is forcing them to.. Ah, so you admit then that there is a left-wing influence, hell bent on bringing about content enforcement on youtube and social media platforms?
|
|
|
Post by coffekanon on Mar 13, 2018 11:54:58 GMT
And regarding racism - I truly have no idea of what you’re talking about, which is a bit shocking to me (and I’m not being coy). I spend the better part of my existence studying 20th century history, with a pretty strong focus on the rise of nationalism. I’ve literally spent thousands and thousands of hours studying this and I’ve never heard of a theory based on the Frankfurt School of thought that anyone interprets that way, at least not in serious academic circles. I might be wrong, but it sounds like someone’s twisting things here. In my book and the book of everyone else I know who study this field professionally, the first definition you give is the ONLY definition of racism there is. I’ve heard that the extreme, racist right frequently accuse liberals of holding minorities incapable of racism. I’ve heard the extreme anti-establishment left argue that the far right is forcing reverse racism on minorities... but both those things are so seriously off the chart and fringe political blabla that those of us studying it from a perspective of history tend to ignore that kind of thing and focus on the verifiable facts to understand the motives, rather than the rhetoric. Your suggestion is even stranger to me. "Reverse racism" does not exist. The term "reverse racism" implies that only white people can subject others to racism, but not the other way around. Which is a false notion, since the concept of racism never takes the race of the offender or the victim into account. Look up the names Herbert Marcuse and Theodor Adorno if you want to study the phenomenon of cultural marxism and critical theory deeper. Feminism, Progressivism, "Social Justice" all of these movements grew out of the ideas and narratives penned by people like Herbert Marcuse and Theodor Adorno in the Frankfurt Institute of Social Science. You can clearly tell this because the statements made by them are almost identical to the statements made by the "progressives" of today, but Herbert and Theodor coined them decades before the rise of modern feminism, progressivism, social justice and multiculturalism. The problem still persist, left wing groups abuse the non-protected state of "racist speech" by equating all of their political opponents as "racist" with the hopes that it will get their opponents into trouble with the law and the establishment. Pride in ones heritage, the desire to see stricter laws on immigration, the desire to see more police prescence in troubled neighbourhoods, harsher prison sentences, being pro-death penalty etc. Several of these views are conservative, yet they're all branded as "racist" by the contemporary left, based on tinfoil hat conspiracy theories that conservatives only want these things because they might "affect minorities".
|
|
|
Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 13, 2018 12:10:12 GMT
Google is literally obsessed about NOT getting involved with content enforcement, but advertisers and public pressure is forcing them to.. Ah, so you admit then that there is a left-wing influence, hell bent on bringing about content enforcement on youtube and social media platforms? Ther are left and right wing influences hell bent on bringing about conten enforcement on youtube and social media platforms. This isnt an issue unique to each side, it it not an issue unique to any American political party or political definition. The issues we face in the union effect us all, political offiliations do not matter.
|
|