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Post by coffekanon on Mar 7, 2018 12:32:38 GMT
The CNNs are allowed to show dead bodies, right on YouTube. Normal YouTubers aren't. I hate that. Clear rules that are enforced by the books is what I want. No exceptions for large channels or professional networks. And I can understand that on every aspect, and youtube once had an restriction for kids under 18 so if you were about to watch something "bad" then it would tell you. But it didn't restrict all the way. But I also don't want dead bodies showing up on Youtube, unless it's in a science channel. That might exclude a lot of people, but dead people aren't jokes. They were real humans like you and me, they deserve the right to not be shown on Youtube. If dead bodies can't be shown on youtube, then you'll effectively censor vital news reports from warzones, famine- and disease stricken areas. The Logan Paul thing was in poor taste sure, but in reality it's not that much different from what news agencies do when they show dead bodies in warzones and news articles. Both do it for views, impact and sensation. If you really don't like seeing dead bodies, then it's not like you're forced to watch. |
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Post by coffekanon on Mar 7, 2018 12:37:53 GMT
Personally I don't think he did anything wrong and I can't understand the hysteria that surrounds it. People are looking at this like he had something to do with this guy's death when all he did was find his body some time later. If it's no longer socially acceptable to film the aftermath of tragedies, surely we must make pariahs of war correspondents and journalists that document natural disasters too. I think he did something wrong. It was in very poor taste. But then again, I think what war correspondents and journalists do is also in extremely poor taste. They're not taking those gory shots of dead bodies in warzones because they "care about the victims". They do it solely for views, attention and ratings. And thereby only to make money and fame for themselves. So the thing with the Logan Paul controversy is actually kind of good critique at journalism in general and their poor taste and disrespectful attitude towards the victims. The only thing Logan Paul did different from journalists was that he didn't hide behind some fake facade of caring about the victims. He just put death on display. But in essence, there's no difference at all. Still, I don't think it should be Youtubes role to police that type of content. If the video could raise larger questions regarding journalistic methods and their lack of ethics, then that's something for society at large to discuss. Not for youtube to shut down. For the record: I hate Logan Paul as a person. |
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Post by coffekanon on Mar 7, 2018 12:45:48 GMT
I take particular issue with something like the Logan Paul affair, that offense having little to nothing to do with Youtube, who I certainly agree should have very clear guidelines as to why this type of content isn't acceptable. It isn't an issue of being "shocked", or some sort of general disgust over a joke, or a dead body. Rather, where my concern lies, is in preserving the rights of the person that can't consent to being used as a 'shock video' prop, and obviously their families. In a sense, I look at it the same way I look at folks having sex with animals. My concern lies in the matter of the implicit lack of consent from one party. From a strictly legal perspective though, in some countries the legislation states that you don't need people's consent to film them. Now I don't know what the legislation looks like in Japan exactly, but I just raise the argument because it might be similar to the legislation in my country. And in my country, public space and anyone in it is up for grabs. If you're out in public, then you don't have any legal rights to prevent people from filming you or taking pictures of you. They don't require your consent. Only on private property do you have some legal way to control what is being filmed. But even in such situations there are loopholes (since journalists frequently make "undercover" stuff with hidden cameras and hidden microphones) The legislation might be different in other countries of course. There might be laws requiring consent to be filmed in the world which would make the actions of Logan Paul a misdemeanor or criminal offense. |
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 7, 2018 17:07:26 GMT
You know, my previous post was SJW parody, but there's a lot of truth in it too... White western culture (particularly Australian) has a very strong and clearly defined sense of gallows humor. For example, our family business is accommodation and as you can guess we get all kinds coming in and a few of them didn't check out.
The first time I saw a man hanging from my ceiling fan, it was quite... contemplative. The posture, the smell, the fluids soaked into the carpet. The coloration and temperature of his naked body meant he's been there for a while... Later I was talking to the motelier across the road and I'd described the scene. Do you know what the first thing she said to me?
"Did he have a stiffy?"
There was nothing left to do but eat the breakfast we made for him.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 7, 2018 17:28:25 GMT
You know, my previous post was SJW parody, but there's a lot of truth in it too... White western culture (particularly Australian) has a very strong and clearly defined sense of gallows humor. For example, our family business is accommodation and as you can guess we get all kinds coming in and a few of them didn't check out. The first time I saw a man hanging from my ceiling fan, it was quite... contemplative. The posture, the smell, the fluids soaked into the carpet. The coloration and temperature of his naked body meant he's been there for a while... Later I was talking to the motelier across the road and I'd described the scene. Do you know what the first thing she said to me? "Did he have a stiffy?" There was nothing left to do but eat the breakfast we made for him. I like Australians. Say something too offensive to an Australian... "That's a bit much mate, chill out" end of issue. Not much is too offensive. I suppose when everything around you is trying to kill you a dark joke is the least of your worries. |
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 7, 2018 17:44:21 GMT
Our maid found him, it was her first day on the job. How is that not funny?
Listen, when I was Growing up in Australia, we were real men. These days they're a bunch of spineless beta cucks that make me want to puke. Nothing... I repeat NOTHING could offend a real Australian because offense is weakness and we're the strongest people on the planet... and we fuckin' know it.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 7, 2018 17:57:21 GMT
One of my favourie phrases is the following apology for offending someone....
"I am sorry, sorry that you are so weak that meer words can hurt you."
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Post by coffekanon on Mar 7, 2018 21:35:46 GMT
Our maid found him, it was her first day on the job. How is that not funny? Listen, when I was Growing up in Australia, we were real men. These days they're a bunch of spineless beta cucks that make me want to puke. Nothing... I repeat NOTHING could offend a real Australian because offense is weakness and we're the strongest people on the planet... and we fuckin' know it. Guess I get to be an honorary Australian then, seeing as how I see getting offended as a weakness too and I'd never give someone else the satisfaction of seeing me get offended by anything. ... Oh and I drink beer over coffee as well  |
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Post by Unwise on Mar 8, 2018 16:02:28 GMT
I think part of our solution needs to be seperating Youtube from its creators in terms of who is held accountable for content, both legally and morally. If there was the distinction that youtube is not responsible then all the bad press would fall on a bad creator. Advertisers would remove add form a bad creator etc. As it stands at the moment any time anyone does anything judged to be bad, Youtube gets the blame. Youtube needs the protection afforded other media and communication carriers. You don't blame the phone company when you get crank calls, or report teh post man if you recieve offensive mail. But Youtube are the ones who are promoting and putting ads on people's videos, so they are partly (if not mostly) to blame. As people mentioned above, Youtube needs to communicate it's rules properly, not put some vague indications of what might be wrong or not. *Why demonetise or strike a channel when you can prevent a channel from making a mistake in the first place! And as for Logan Paul, in my opinion he deserves to be completely shutdown from the Internet for exploiting a dead person for attention, even IF it wasn't his intention (but it most definitely was). |
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 8, 2018 21:18:38 GMT
But Youtube are the ones who are promoting and putting ads on people's videos, so they are partly (if not mostly) to blame. As people mentioned above, Youtube needs to communicate it's rules properly, not put some vague indications of what might be wrong or not. *Why demonetise or strike a channel when you can prevent a channel from making a mistake in the first place! And as for Logan Paul, in my opinion he deserves to be completely shutdown from the Internet for exploiting a dead person for attention, even IF it wasn't his intention (but it most definitely was). I really don't see why Youtube shoul get blamed just because it is a large platform. There are many carriers who are not held responsible for the content their uers send over their service. Youtube definately needs to communicate its rules better. It also needs to handle changes in the rules better. We cannot have creators in a situation where a rule change can send them out of business, that is not a reasonable place to be in. As far as Logan Paul goes, I really dislike the guy. The dead body incident was adisgusting move. The rat incident was a disgusting move. However I do not think someone should be censored for simple being offensive. That leads down a slipper slope. |
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 9, 2018 3:12:57 GMT
I don't know why we're treating suicide like some kind of sacred cow... I think there's more to this story than meets the eye. The bottom line is, Japan and Korea have the highest rates of suicide in the world. Do we discuss it like adults, or do we make a villain of some man who found Voldemort in the forest?
Here is an excerpt from wiki: "The general attitude toward suicide has been termed "tolerant", and in many occasions suicide is seen as a morally responsible action."
If this came up for review as part of the league, I would vote strongly in favour of Paul... He's only exploring Japan's rich culture. It's not his fault if our narrow minds can't take it.
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Post by bigmonmulgrew on Mar 9, 2018 6:52:52 GMT
Seemed more like he was trying to be deliberately disrespectful from his other videos in Japan
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Post by maximgunn on Mar 11, 2018 1:28:10 GMT
Must a person be respectful? Is that in the community guidelines? Must one be forced to paint a joker smile on their faces even though everything is fucked and everybody sucks?
The reason this video got so much heat is because it was in the famous Japanese 'suicide forest'. Not that he found a body, not that he was there, not that he giggled nervously trying to entertain viewers... It was because it was Japan's 'Suicide forest' a Place in Japan where Japanese off themselves in record numbers by committing suicide in the forest, hence the name 'suicide forest'. They've got one of those in Texas too, but it's bigger.
Did I mention all cultures are beautiful and do you wanna know how I got these scars?
Additional:
I wasn't aware of his other videos at the time, but now I know what you meant by being 'disrespectful' after seeing a montage of his antics... That guy is a total asshole! I think the way he treated the people on the streets of Japan is far worse than anything else he's famous for. He's a bad influence and should be treated as such.
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Post by coffekanon on Mar 12, 2018 15:02:50 GMT
Must a person be respectful? Is that in the community guidelines? Definitely not, and we're in for a slippery slope if something so fuzzy and ill defined as "remaining respectful" is included in any community guidlines. It just guarantees arbitrary decisions without any consistency at all. For instance, Muslims find it extremely "disrespectful" when non-muslims criticize Islam or their prophet. Should youtube then be a platform that automatically deletes any videos that offers critique of their religion? And if so, what if christians start calling for the same thing? And jews? And Buddhists? Is critique of religion supposed to be completely outlawed on the platform? I think anyone can see that including "remain respectful" in any community guidlines is an extremely bad idea. No culture, religion, ethnic group or corporation "deserves" respect by virtue of being a culture, religion, ethnic group or corporation. |
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Post by shoptheinsanity on Mar 12, 2018 18:44:50 GMT
I'm all for making the rules clearer to say "no dead people / dead animals".
That should solve the problem right there.
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